Thanks for your input, Carol. I expect you're right. I also expect it depends on one's goals, and I don't pretend to know what goals some of these people have. But then, I'm not one of the ones jumping through hoops.

gemma bloom

Carol McPhee No doubt many are making extreme efforts to comply with restrictions to get published, but there are small presses out there who allow and encourage creativity. it's a matter of finding the right fit for your work. Carol

It is a shame these days. I've noticed it as well how publishers seem to determine what and how writers create their work with the mindless attitude 'you'll write this or you won't get published'. It's unfair those who are trying to make a go of a writing career. One shouldn't be so restricted and limited at the height of their creative process. Few are as excited about writing as the first attempts. This is when one wants to write anything and everything and they do it with great enthusiasm. This isn't the time to be fitted into a niche just to get noticed.

I'm not one to follow such guidelines. I've done a lot of research to hone my craft. I may not be as great right now as I may be in the future but one thing I did learn and keep to is write what feel, write what you know. I say that I will not write what the publisher wants but I will find a publisher that wants what I write.

Of course, I'm rather ambitious too so instead of waiting several years, I'm just gonna try to start up my own magazine that focuses on the less restricted creative works
that new and experienced writers yearn to write just to explode some pent up creative ideas.

Details - http://www3.webng.com/writeturntotheleft

Thank you both so much for taking the time to address my consternation. LOL. Between the two of you, you've pretty much covered both prongs of the dichotomy/dilemma.
Finally, it's about priorities, and I don't have the same ones as people who post messages saying they've spent so much time and energy researching and querying agents that they're too tired to write.
My point is that if that's the current state of publishing, sites like Nothing Binding haven't arrived a moment too soon. Because I for one am too old and way too curmudgeonly to jump through many tiny hoops to try to hit the small and constantly shifting window of opportunity.

gemma bloom

Well, it does seem easier to get your foot in the door if you write a certain genre and conform to its rules. Publishing is a business and like any business, they want to offer products they know will sell.

Agents look for something that's "different but not too different," and until and unless one becomes famous, that's the path one has to try to walk if traditional publishing is the goal.

The way I see it, a writer can either write to the market or write to their muse. Writing to the market will teach stylistic discipline but can chip away at creativity. Writing to the muse can lead to rambling, unreadable drivel. Somewhere in between is a happy medium, but actual publication remains a long shot unless you end up with something that just happens to conform to what agents think publishers think book-buyers think people want to buy.

It all makes me glad I have a decent job and only write for fun!

Couldn't agree with you more. I certainly don't blame the publishers for wanting to make money, nor am I unwilling to make some concessions to the process. I guess I do mourn the fact that the machine has gotten so big that in most cases, one must choose between the two alternatives of writing because one wants to and hoping to be published. And I do personally have a problem with assigning the same importance to a query letter that I do to a manuscript. But that's just me. I wish those who feel otherwise all good luck.
gemma bloom

I think at the end of the day we each have to ask ourselves why we write. If the primary goal is to be published by a traditional publisher, we will likely have to make certain concessions to the industry and the process. Very few writers can avoid this.

If one's primary goal is just to write, then conforming to a pre-defined genre and writing the perfect query letter aren't nearly as important.

It's really about what you hope to get out of writing. For the publishers, it's a business. It's hard to blame them for treating it that way.

Kate, I too feel other avenues are opening up--which is why I refuse to agonize over a query letter. LOL
gemma bloom

There are a gazillion writers for every spot on a publisher or agent's list. It's that simple. As long as there are always new writers willing to do what publishers want, then the writers won't have much say. That's why organizations like Romance Writers of American really can't have a huge impact on bizarre clauses in contracts etc--though there are some big names there and I guess what Nora Roberts says will make a difference with publishers (and the nice thing about Nora Roberts is that she really does care about the industry)

What the publishers want, usually, is to make money. With production and editing costs, that makes perfect sense.

For a single typical NYC book, at the minimum a publisher have to pay an advance to a writer, time/salaries of the editor, a designer or two, a publicity person and the commission of an outside proofer--and those are the costs BEFORE a word is printed (on expensive paper with more expensive card stock covers). Oh, and then you have to give Ingrams their chunk of the sales dough. 20 years ago there were hundreds of book distributors. Now there are two. And maybe? I think Taylor and Baker have gone under. Maybe? Been bought out? That leaves Ingrams with five, maybe six warehouses and therefore rising distribution costs because of the cost of gas...anyway, you get the picture. And the fact is, most books don't make sell-through. Huge risk is not part of the package for a mainstream publisher. They're scared for good reason.

The big change has been epublishing and that's really opened up EVERYTHING. In the last five years or so, it's even touched the dinosaur world of regular publishing. Sure, publishers still want to make money, but they can follow newer trends take bigger chances. They're starting to put books up on Fictionwise and other places. So it may feel like there are fewer possibilities in the world, but to me it feels like it's opening up and turning into something pretty exciting. For once.

Oh, the bogus thing about the mainstream publishers and epublishing? They pay piddly advances. Not as bad (5-10%) as it has to be for regular books, but come on. TWELVE percent for an ebook? Which costs them nothing to produce or ship? Pfah.

http://katerothwell.blogspot.com

Mary, it's so good to hear you've had a positive experience and are happy with your decision.
I had been querying for a few years and had one MS under agency contract when I decided I was tired of waiting for someone else to get me where I wanted to get. I never queried anybody on the one I published. Just finished it, and off it went. And I am not one bit sorry. In the first place, I haven't burned any bridges. I can continue to query on other works. But in the meantime, I've got a product out there.
I've just been asked to speak at a meeting of a local writers' group, and while it will not make me a household name, it's an opportunity I would not have had at all had I done nothing but wait to catch somebody in the right mood.
gemma bloom

I'm with you, Gemma Bloom. I'm not getting any younger here, so why wait to hear from a big name publisher. Oh, don't get me wrong, I would love to be published by one of them, but once, with Dorchester Publishing, I waited two years to hear back. Yes, you heard me right. Two Years! They apologized though! Right now, I waited about 8 months to see my book in print. I imagine it will be another 8 months or longer to see my second book in print, since it's not quite in the production stage yet. And, time is slipping by here, and I just chose not to go the traditional route of searching for an agent, looking for the right publisher, and waiting. I did it for a few years, and it just didn't work. In fact, it made me put my book away, and forget about it for awhile. Now, my book is a good book, so that's not the reason. Most all of them said the writing was great, but the story line wasn't what they were looking for. (A romantic time-travel)

I didn't pay anything to get my book published, and it never will unless I want to buy books for something. I've convinced book stores to carry my book, that everyone else calls POD, but my publisher swears they aren't POD, their books are returnable. Anyway, they made me a beautiful book, did everything for me to make it that way, and I am totally satisfied with them. I just wish marketing wasn't so expensive. So, now for me, this is the way to go.

Mary J. Dressel
Author, Visions of Enchantment
ISBN 1424152038

http://www.maryjdresselbooks.com

I can certainly sympathize with the dilemma of being unwilling to give up your life to send out queries. But you've done something that you wanted to do, so congratulations to you.
Part of the irony, of course, is that the vast majority of published authors, regardless of how they are published, still have to market and publicize their work. Now, to my thinking, that narrows the gap somewhat between the traditionally and non-traditionally published.
But hang in there. We already know who you are, and you're not dead yet! :D
gemma bloom

In my case, I'm using POD for books that are unpublishable, anyway. My current POD book is posted (in a much messier version) online. It's got a high word count. It has pictures that are part of the story.

Three strikes against it, and I'm not famous enough to overcome any of them.

I printed it through Lulu for free. Or rather, I did all the formatting and artwork myself, did all the editing, and all I pay for is the print copies that I order. People who want to read it (it built up a small fan base in its earlier incarnation) can download it or buy it in print.

I also dabble in things like family or local histories, that are of sufficiently limited interest that POD is perfect.

I haven't yet considered publishing something POD that might be attractive to a traditional publisher. I have a novel I think I could sell that way, if only I were willing to put in the time. I was doing pretty well with requests for partials when I decided I didn't have time to query AND write if I also wanted to work and have a life.

But I don't have any more time for marketing than I do for querying, so at this rate I'll just have to be one of those writers who is recognized posthumously, I guess. ;-)

Denise, I think we're still trying to figure that out. I haven't yet discovered a central archive for our posts. So far, I've found my own posts. (Well, who cares? I already know what I said.) It weould appear that in order to follow a thread, you need to pick it up in your email. :/
I'm going to do some poking around, because it would be nice to be able to read what others have said.
gemmabloom

I am really interested in this topic but when I went to read what the screen said was 13 comments there was only one. What gives? Am I not doing something right?

http://internetmarketingreview.org/blog
My Freelancing Blog

I wrote and write for therapy as it heals me to get my emotions out onto paper. My story is one of surviving bad bosses, corporate doctors, corporate lawyers, a government who is not there for the people yet protects big business. I want the world to know about how people are treated now in working environments. I want people to know what they did to me. I hope people will read my story. I hope something changes for the good of the people. I hope I can make a little money as I am not working because of my medical conditions at the moment. A writers sole criteria for writting should be passion. The passion to tell the story.

Elizabeth
www.arighttowork.com

Hi, Jean. Congratulations on started your own publishing company. I wish you much success. That's not somethng I would ever take on.
The fact is there are more people wanting to publish books than small publishers are able and large publishers are willing to deal with. That's why I think the POD publishers like iUniverse do provide a needed service. I don't want to wait forever to catch an agent or editor at an opportune moment and don't mind promoting my product---which of course I had to GET some way in order to be able to promote it.
Very best of luck,
gemma bloom

Jean Boggio, Author, Publisher
www.jeanboggio.com
www.colerithpress.com

It's not just you. Traditional publishing has become ludicrous in its demands of writers. That's why I decided to form my own publishing company, initially to publish my own work, then to encourage and assist other new authors. I think the Big Six are a dying breed, dinosaurs. I'm also not in favor of POD publishers (not to be confused with POD printers) who charge a fortune and give no help, just so someone can maybe sell 50 copies of their book to friends and family. Publishing may be a business, but it's an artistic business and we have to keep that thought in front of us.